|  gregoryo | Oct 8, 2006 1:09am | We were keeping our eye on 1984. When the year came and the prophecy didn't, thoughtful Americans sang softly in praise of themselves. The roots of liberal democracy had held. Wherever else the terror had happened, we, at least, had not been visited by Orwellian nightmares.
But we had forgotten that alongside Orwell's dark vision, there was another - slightly older, slightly less well known, equally chilling: Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. Contrary to common belief even among the educated, Huxley and Orwell did not prophesy the same thing. Orwell warns that we will be overcome by an externally imposed oppression. But in Huxley's vision, no Big Brother is required to deprive people of their autonomy, maturity and history. As he saw it, people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.
What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions". In 1984, Huxley added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love will ruin us.
This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.
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|  Lokito | Oct 8, 2006 7:51pm | | Indeed, Orwell's vision is based largely upon the time period in which he wrote the book - the incessant struggle of world powers taking place right before his eyes. Another factor is that he, for some time, worked in a government propaganda office. He knew how profound an effect it could have on the people and even society as a whole. Orwell's vision is far more...epic, for lack of a better word, than Huxley's. Orwell tries to include the structure of the future society as a whole as a way to support the plot. Huxley shows that the demeanor and personality of each individual when put into a larger context can allow society to run itself in a certain way. In terms of the course we are leaning toward currently...well, I'd say Huxley definitely nailed it on the head. Orwell's ideas are completely accurate in every sense, but in this current day and age the chances that any such situation could arise are much slimmer than the possibility of Huxley's vision falling into place. |
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Sponsor |  ntltrmllgnc | Oct 8, 2006 8:24pm | 1984 did come true on time. It talks of false flag operations (Pearl Harbor, Mossadeq, USS Liberty), big brother (China and the USSR heavily monitored their citizens as England has been doing for over a decade), propaganda (those we call terrorists were called freedom fighters in 1984).
Don't mistake the sunny day for a happy world to live in. Look around, we're already in it.
1948 when the book was written was the beginning.
1984 is a year when Orwell expected the reality of 1948 would become irreversible. He was right on time. |
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| | spvo | Oct 8, 2006 9:08pm | ntltrmllgnc, maybe its been a while since you've read 1984, but our society really can't be compared to the one in Orwell's vision. The big brother in that novel was much more powerful and opressive than what any government is doing today. Also, I can't think of a single situation in 1984 that talks about false flag operations, not that Pearly Harbor was one.
But anyway, I agree with lokito. If either of the two visions were to come true, it would most likely be Huxley's. |
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Sponsor | | ntltrmllgnc | Oct 8, 2006 11:00pm | My interpretation
Huxley's vision has come true because we hide from things that scare us. TV is Soma. Orwell's vision has come true because there are those who intentionally create fear for gaining political power.
I found the answer in Orwell's analysis at the end of the book.
O'Brien forms a group called the Brotherhood. He tells Julia and Winston that they will be taking actions against the system. Well as it turns out toward the end O'Brien is the head of the govt. This is an accurate depiction of those who pull false flag operations. They run both sides of the conflict.
We have groups such as the School of the Americas and P2OG that operate the same way.
Particularly one character in the book has an analogue who can be found in today's papers.
Emmanuel Goldstein = Osama bin Laden
Nobody ever sees Goldstein. He is a "revolutionary" who makes "bold" statements about his cause and the govt.
We have questions about whether Bin Laden is still around, whether the tapes of him are fake, questions about how many times "his 2nd in command" has been killed. And notice how often Bin Laden seems to pop up when there is a drop in the polls.
The "war on a tactic" and the war on Eastasia/Eurasia have a lot in common. |
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| | spvo | Oct 8, 2006 11:42pm | I've always been under the impression that a false flag operation was one in which a government group does something while pretending to be from another government. ie, flying another governments flag. But it doesn't really matter.
And I wasn't saying there are no parallels between Orwells world and our own. I'm just saying that we are not living in a world anywhere near as extreme as 1984, as your original post implied. |
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Sponsor | | ntltrmllgnc | Oct 9, 2006 12:35am | That definition leaves out who the target is. The idea is to cause a self inflicted wound.
Julia and Winston were tortured. Abu Ghraib, Moussaoui's taser belt.
O'Brien had the Brotherhood. We have P2OG and the Mujahideen turned Al Qaeda. Then there's Kermit Roosevelt bragging about how patriotic it was to kill innocents and blame it on Mossadeq during Operation Ajax. (and that was in 1953 no less)
The world in 1984 was littered with cameras. We have surveillance done via AT&T's network. We have night clubs implanting chips in people.
Junior Anti Sex League. Just say No to sex. Abstinence propaganda.
Newspeak and Crimethink. Collateral damage, soft targets and pulling people off planes for having airplane designs in their bag (happened to Quantas CEO) and then there's Clinton and Bush's own PATRIOT Acts (different names)
Two Minute Hate. Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter. |
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| | csny | Sep 3, 2008 11:15am | | 1: i'm gonna have to check that out |
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